|
Up to:  Biker's CafeThis should be a good place for all purpose talks, better than interleaving our discussions with "Time Trial Champions" comments.
BikerBrian | PoliticsWow! I stirred up a hornets nest by bringing up politics. Sorry guys, you can blame me. 
Let me start by saying that I am in complete agreement with Vega's last post in the GC thread (this discussion has now been moved to its own thread).
As Kris said, we each have our own personal beliefs about political (and religious) issues, so there is no sense trying to persuade each other.
However, I do need to add my 2 cents to Xuzz's comments. Regarding taxes: Even under the current "Bush system", people who earn more still pay WAY more than anyone else (actual and percentage). The top 5% earn 31.99% of all wages, but pay 53.25% of all income taxes. The top 50% pay 96.03% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% are paying a tiny bit of the taxes (3.97%), so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition. Yet these are the people that Democrats claim to want to give tax cuts. Remember this the next time you hear the "tax cuts for the rich" business. Understand that the so-called rich are about the only ones paying taxes anymore.
The tax cuts have been unfairly labeled by the media to imply that they only help the rich, but that's crap. The "rich" are just being allowed to keep more of their own money. As Vega so eloquently put it, the better off they (and their companies) are, the better off everyone else will be. It is a terrible idea to punish success. If taxes are raised on businesses and employers, they will simply pass this burden on to customers and employees.
As for this election, we will have to agree to disagree if you (Xuzz) think Obama (who has the most liberal record in the U.S. Senate -  http://nj.nationaljou rnal.com/voteratings/) is better suited to run our country and unite it than McCain (who has a proven track record of working together with members from both parties).
Either way, our votes in CA and TN won't matter anyway. Obama will get California's electoral votes and McCain will get Tennessee's. There will be very little campaign money spent in either state. |
mike flips
|  |  | Again an idiot.
When people talk about abortion no one is talking about 6 months. No one is talking about nearly born babies. My sister was 6 months, i'm well aware of what a baby is like after 6 months. We are talking 3 months at most in most cases so again, you just sound stupid like you dont know what you are talking about.
Just because people were worried in the 70s about cooling doesnt mean anything. There was a slight trend of downwards temperature at that time. But it clearly has risen again, indicating an overall upwards trend. People didnt understand anything and the technology was not up to par. It was just overblown by the media like normal. Just because some people think they can fly doesnt mean they will just off a building. unless of course you are pickle, then you would believe anything. How about this, you go read about global cooling and global warming on wikipedia or something like that and then come back here and tell us what you think (although you never really do think at all).
You say "a measly 1.8 degrees." It doesnt seem like much but it is and its expected to keep rising. A little change like that has drastic effects on the world.
A leading Nature magazine said if trends continue we could lose a million species in the next 50 years. If water levels keep rising, the eastern US will be swamped, and so on and so forth. Why dont you go on national geographic's website and read about it. Thats a reputable source. And all this from "literally almost nothing". 1.8 sounds small but it is massive in reality. Again, ignorance by the pickle.
And pickle, Jesus is gonna come again. There is a 3rd coming now? Where'd you read that one, the "Newer Testament?"
|
| Kristopher
|  | | bones
|  | | OMG POSTS ARE TOO LONG!!!!!!!! OMG WTF BBQ!!!!!!
SHIFT 111111 |
| Kristopher
| | | Pckl, ur arg should= "GW is frm sun / cows" or "GW is sickle."
Me < 3 heat.
 |
| Vega
|  | | Well well well. It is clearly a phenomenon of human nature how worked up everybody gets over Politics and Religion. Corporations are so careful now to place strict rules and guidelines in their human resources policies now because people tend to get a bit loony and blindly passionate about these topics. These topics greatly affect real life and therefore produce deep rooted viewpoints.
First, I'd like to say that I'm a bit torn by what I am reading here in the BoD forum. This is a unique situation. People in internet "forums" talk politics and religion all the time. One thing different about this forum though is that this is a pretty tight knit gaming forum where we all know each other and we all interact on a regular basis for BoD reasons. It may be challenging for us to return to interacting as we did before we "found out" what each other's personal viewpoint and stance is on this level.
I appreciate a good discussion about important issues. The problem, so few people understand how to participate in a good discussion without becoming so overbearing in their tone and their "points'" that they want to get across, that it becomes a spittng match between "friends". I'd like for this very heated discussion to not progress in too far down that path. Clearly we all have very strong thoughts on these real world issues and there are many different perspectives and opinions represented here. We could all continue this thread for another 11 years, and in 2019, we will all still be writing 23 paragraph posts of argumentative nature. That's a lot of destructive, and largely wasteful energy that can be used in other ways.
I am all about a good strong opinion and some solid perspective to back it up, but in a tasteful, and respectable way. Even in my strong opinions about the economy, the Bible, etc. etc., I try (don't always succeed 100% of the time) to keep things respectful to others.
Some of the comments I have read here are not respectful at all. Some of these comments and viewpoints are silly, false, or just downright hurtful.
"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". This is what Spence was referring to. Nothing I have read here changes my mind about the bible, or about politics. And that should be perfectly ok to anyone reading this. Many times, a persons fiery attitude and perspective can be a huge repellent to the person you are trying to convince of something, even if what you stand for is true and correct.
Remember folks, there is always always the side that you don't know, the little fact that could alter your perspective if you knew it. We don't "know" these candidates like we think we do. The media is a monster. It's almost never a positive. (Which is why I haven't subscribed to cable TV for many years now) There are many many many many "facts" listed in the comments above that are actually not factual at all. Too many to go into here, and I am not interested in jabbing people, because that won't help anything at all anyways, right?
War vs peace, Rep vs Dem, Christianity vs Atheist, Jew vs Muslim, rich vs poor.... etc etc etc. These issues have very deep roots. Let's all be careful when delivering our viewpoints to others. No matter if you are right or wrong, if you kick a fellow man in the shin with a steel toed boot, he's gonna get mad. He'll probably lash back at you.
There are many facets to understand about this war in the middle east. Nobody on earth understands all of them. If nobody had stopped Hitler, he would have dominated until he achieved world power. Winston Churchill finally stopped him. I would never claim that everything the military is doing is morally right in Iraq. One, because I'm not there, so I can't say for sure. But two, and more importantly, because it's led by humans, and nobody's perfect. Broad perspective is always healthy perspective. And to say that we should pull out completely and let these people live their lives in peace is a horrifyingly naive viewpoint that so many people seem to have in this present day. If you let people violate you, they will do so without hesitation and they will never back down. It's not right, but it's truth.
FACT: No matter what anyone believes, no matter what colorful little bumper sticker saying somebody prints up and puts on his car, no matter what side of the national party you support, there is a large, growing, dangerous "army" of people in that region of the world that want so very desperately to destroy America forever.
They will kill until we are gone (or at least under their power). The actually hate us. Their reason for this is that they believe our freedoms are destroying their culture. The sin that America allows threatens their beliefs so much, that the influence we have on their people and this world has caused them to rise up and kill us. All nations have the same issues as America as far as corruption in the culture, but America is the King Daddy. (please do not confuse this with me saying the I believe American people are better than other). But America is the powerhouse of this word right now. There is a freakish tilt on this particular situation though. In war, the other side most normally wants to stay alive. This allows for some boundaries. Some strategies. Some common sense planning to occur. Here's what makes this current problem so very different from others. The terrorists that form cell groups and plot and scheme to kill as many people as possible, also hold it as a very high honor to intentionally die in the process of killing others. It is taught that unless they do not sacrifice their life in the process. This allows them to have a significant leverage that is very difficult for the opposing side to control. The reason the Joker (in the new Dark Knight) movie is so dangerous is because he has no self preservation built in to his agenda. (please, no comments about how movies are not real life and war is. I understand that, but it's a good analogy).
So far all of us in America that go to work everyday, earn money, go out to eat, go to church, go to the beach, go watch a movie, etc etc etc., the only reason we have the freedoms to do all of this is because we are protected by a military of great power. The world would take America if they could folks. I have seen things in the military that I am not proud of, and I understand that not ever part of the current situation is being handled honorably, but I am not so blind to the broader picture that I would say to abort the entire project. The overarching vision that so many don't know about is that America is working to bring a solid military/governmental structure to the middle east so that they CAN be self sufficient. That's the vision. It is not to blow people up and spend billions just for fun.
It did not become our business when they flew 2 jet planes into our buildings. That was an awful display of brutal murder and massive chaos, but it was our business before 9/11. The problem existed long before. Just go watch the movie "Seige" with Denzel Washington and Bruce Willis. That movie was produced in 2000.
I have addressed only 1 topic here. There are so many. But my main intention here was to bring to the table that we should not get so hateful and loony over these topics. And be careful what you read, watch, listen to, and are affected by. You must be able to recognize truth and screen through assumptive thinking with wise discernment.
I have no idea how long this post is. I haven't even previewed it yet. I just started typing and this is what came to mind. Hopefully some of my words can imbue a slice of a respectful tone to these discussions.
-Vega 
|
| Champ
|  | | Holy crap that's a lot of writing...
I read every word in your post Vega, and I do agree with you 100%. People get so carried away with politics and it just pulls everyone further apart. Some guy stabbed his own brother after a debate between Barrack Obama and Hilary Clinton. HIS OWN BROTHER. This goes to show that people get so uptight about their beliefs. It's just sad to think about it. No matter what view you have on society, we should not fight about it. We should view from the other person's perspective. Take a walk in their shoes, LISTEN to what they are saying. Some people just won't budge, sitting their believing what they want to believe without looking into it. Also, in this election, A LOT of people are voting for Barack Obama JUST BECAUSE HE IS BLACK. I don't see why people get that low...
I am going to talk about my beliefs because everyone else is and I do not want to feel left out. I guess this means I also have to make this post 3 paragraphs long Ok basically where I stand is I want McCain to win the election. McCain has been a prisoner of war, so he knows the values of war. If we try to compromise with other countries, do you think it would work? This world is so screwed up, that it even goes back to our ancestors. People have been fighting for THOUSANDS of years. It is part of everyone's culture, it is part of the way of life. People dig deep into the roots of their history to find what their culture is and how it started. In their roots, they may have been enemies of other countries, or ethnicities, or things like that. They fight for honor, or they fight because of their religion. Many religions hate other religions, and they solve by killing. Going back to Vega's post, "You must be able to recognize truth and screen through assumptive thinking with wise discernment." The world is so screwed up THEY CAN'T DO THAT. They stick with their beliefs and their roots and fight. If we change our American ways to compromising, do you think the other countries are going to do the same? Do you honestly think that the entire world is just gunna give up thousands of years of fighting? I do not think so. But I do have to say, it was kinda lame of him choosing Sarah Palin for VP. Maybe I don't really know. I AM NOT BEING SEXIST. I think that he might have pulled this stunt to maybe get more votes. This way, whoever wins, something will go down in government history. First woman in office, or first black president. He could also have picked her for other reasons too, only McCain really knows...
Where I stand on Barrack Obama: lol. I don't really want to get deep into it because people will start flaming me maybe idk. Basically all evidence points to him being Muslim, and I do not want a Muslim running this country. DO NOT GET ME WRONG HERE. One of my best friends Muslim, no lie. But this goes back to history, and they hate a lot of ways of American culture, and that's what scares me. I am not being racist or anything like that, it's just yeah. Do not want to get into it. I also don't like him cuz he's a democrat, but that's obvious.
So yeah there are my stands. Don't flame or I kill u. Keep the BoD community peaceful |
| Kristopher
| | | mike flips
| | | I agree with you Vega too. I'd say the biggest problems in the post is just pickle saying stupid and ignorant things that are proven 100% wrong so it just gets annoying.
Anywho. |
| Xuzz
|  | | Champ
| | | Xuzz
| | | Champ, read the comment on that video  |
| PMD
 | | 5 | | | 6 | |
|  | | Vega takes the longest post title back. I think he should get a Gold Club point for that.  |
| Champ
| | | Ahh w/e. I blame my dyslexia.
Oh well, we'll see what happens if Obama becomes president (maybe) |
| bones
| | | i have a new rule for myself
if the post takes up more than your secreen can see dont read it.
|
| Kristopher
| | | Mr.pickle.
|  | | I still say palin is a great pick, she has good values as well as being a woman. nothing underexpereince. |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | Xuzz
| | | Oh yeah, lots of foreign policy experience....she can SEE russia from alaska!
Experience with national politics too...because she doesn't even know what the bush doctrine is ....not like you would either... |
| Champ
| | | We should all vote for Mayor Bee!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHB_GDVZn7U
Yay, Mayor Bee, Mayor Bee!
But uhh after reading about the abortion thing, in Mike's post and Pickles post, I agree with Pickle. Think of the Lacy Peterson case. They charged for TWO murders because he killed his pregnant wife... |
| Xuzz
| | | How many months? |
|
|
http://freefile.krist opherw.us/uploads/kristopherwindsor/fx-zoomout.png