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Up to:  Biker's CafeThis should be a good place for all purpose talks, better than interleaving our discussions with "Time Trial Champions" comments.
BikerBrian | PoliticsWow! I stirred up a hornets nest by bringing up politics. Sorry guys, you can blame me. 
Let me start by saying that I am in complete agreement with Vega's last post in the GC thread (this discussion has now been moved to its own thread).
As Kris said, we each have our own personal beliefs about political (and religious) issues, so there is no sense trying to persuade each other.
However, I do need to add my 2 cents to Xuzz's comments. Regarding taxes: Even under the current "Bush system", people who earn more still pay WAY more than anyone else (actual and percentage). The top 5% earn 31.99% of all wages, but pay 53.25% of all income taxes. The top 50% pay 96.03% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% are paying a tiny bit of the taxes (3.97%), so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition. Yet these are the people that Democrats claim to want to give tax cuts. Remember this the next time you hear the "tax cuts for the rich" business. Understand that the so-called rich are about the only ones paying taxes anymore.
The tax cuts have been unfairly labeled by the media to imply that they only help the rich, but that's crap. The "rich" are just being allowed to keep more of their own money. As Vega so eloquently put it, the better off they (and their companies) are, the better off everyone else will be. It is a terrible idea to punish success. If taxes are raised on businesses and employers, they will simply pass this burden on to customers and employees.
As for this election, we will have to agree to disagree if you (Xuzz) think Obama (who has the most liberal record in the U.S. Senate -  http://nj.nationaljou rnal.com/voteratings/) is better suited to run our country and unite it than McCain (who has a proven track record of working together with members from both parties).
Either way, our votes in CA and TN won't matter anyway. Obama will get California's electoral votes and McCain will get Tennessee's. There will be very little campaign money spent in either state. |
BikerBrian
| |  | For some reason, the link didn't work for me. Try putting the following address in your browser: nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/ |
| Mr.pickle.
|  | | I agree
taxes are not my area of expertise but I think vega and biker brian know what there talking about(I am only 26 and so have not had to deal with taxes yet, and enless I am mistaken, neither has xuzz) |
| Vega
|  | | 26? 
I thought you were 15 or something. I am not trying to be mean. I really really thought that because of a conversation in the very beginning. That's crazy. |
| Laser
|  | | I think he meant 16. |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | BikerBrian
| | | What 16 yr old (or 10 yr old for that matter) has spelling and grammar as bad as yours?  |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | No comment. |
| Kristopher
|  | | I'm only 118, and you shouldn't put parenthesis in your links.  |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | wow kris your 118?!
lol |
| Xuzz
|  | | Vega, you were right in that the economy is not Bush's fault. But Iraq certainly didn't help anything
To start, im only going to discuss McCain and Obama, not even their opinions on issues or even MY opionins on issues. I'll get to those though  .
To organize this thread, also if you can, please respond to "[Issue N]" so I know what you are talking about . It would also be nice to know if I have anyone else on my side here ....
[Issue 1 - Ads]
You heard (probably) that McCain said that he was going to run a truthful and positive campaign....well he has been not only lying in his ads, but also in saying that. I have quoted a NYT article here to explain.
From: http://www.nytimes.co m/2008/09/12/opinion/ 12krugman.html?scp=1& sq=blizzard%20of%20lies& st=cse
"Did you hear about how Barack Obama wants to have sex education in kindergarten, and called Sarah Palin a pig? Did you hear about how Ms. Palin told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks' when it wanted to buy Alaska a Bridge to Nowhere?
These stories have two things in common: they're all claims recently made by the McCain campaign — and they're all out-and-out lies.
Take the case of the Bridge to Nowhere, which supposedly gives Ms. Palin credentials as a reformer. Well, when campaigning for governor, Ms. Palin didn't say 'no thanks' — she was all for the bridge, even though it had already become a national scandal, insisting that she would 'not allow the spinmeisters to turn this project or any other into something that's so negative.'
Oh, and when she finally did decide to cancel the project, she didn't righteously reject a handout from Washington: she accepted the handout, but spent it on something else. You see, long before she decided to cancel the bridge, Congress had told Alaska that it could keep the federal money originally earmarked for that project and use it elsewhere.
So the whole story of Ms. Palin's alleged heroic stand against wasteful spending is fiction.
Or take the story of Mr. Obama's alleged advocacy of kindergarten sex-ed. In reality, he supported legislation calling for 'age and developmentally appropriate education'; in the case of young children, that would have meant guidance to help them avoid sexual predators.
And then there’s the claim that Mr. Obama’s use of the ordinary metaphor 'putting lipstick on a pig' was a sexist smear, and on and on."
That should show you just SOME of how untruthful McCain is in his ads and in what he says. Also, check http://factcheck.org for a website that checks the facts on all the candidates ads and speeches.
One other thing about McCain -- He says that he knows what it is like to be one of the standard, middle class Americaan. Yet, he doesn't know how many houses he has, and thinks people are middle class unless they earn $5 million or more a year ...
[Issue 2 - Vice Presidential pick]
Senator McCain picked Sarah Palin as his choice for Vice President. why? I'll tell you why:
Imagine if Hillary Clinton won the Democratic primary. Would McCain have chosen Palin? Obviously not.. The reason he chose Palin is to try and get upset Hillary supporters to support him and not Obama. Palin doesn't have the credentials, knowledge, or anything necessary to be Vice President -- she doesn't even know what the VP does! http://www.youtube.co m/watch?v=b4gkPXSDtGQ AFAIK, if hillary had won, McCain would have picked someone like Huckleberry or Romney to be his Vice Presidental pick.
Now im going to go into the actual Issues .
[Issue 3 - Oil Drilling]
This one is a no-brainer. Drilling more oil (would take years and years to get set up BTW) just wont work. Better to research something Green -- wind power, solar power, tidal power, biofuel, hydrogen (fuel cells), etc. There are PLENTY of ways for us to reduce our dependencies on oil WITHOUT having to drill for more un-enviromentally friendly fossil fuels. And to think that someone from Alaska would support ruinging the pristene Artic national wildlife! Unless of course that person shoots wolves out airplanes for fun and runs for Vice President with a infint with down syndrome, all while not even knowing about most of the Bush poicies and hiding scared from the press ...
[Issue 4 - Gay Marrage/Gay Rights]
since when does America discriminate? I thought that we were trying to be a free country for all of our citizens . Apparently not, at least according to pickle. But I will leave this one mostly alone because i really think that nobody can say it better than mike did on the GC page.....
[Issue 5 - Enviroment/Global Warming]
To start this: picke you are a stupid idiot. "AND THERES NO SUCH THING AS GLOBAL WARMING!!!". I highly doubt you will think that when im done with you . I just hope that Vega, BB, and whomever else i am argueing with here doesn't agree with him on this...
Think of a house. A small, normal house with normal people in it. Say they live in a place with cold winters. Of course, to save money, they will insulate their house -- keeping in the heat. The thicker the insulation -- the more heat kept inside the house. Can you argue with that? I'm guessing not.
Now think of the earth as that house, with the atmosphere as the insulation -- normally, it is the right thickness so it stays nice and perfect for people to live. Now thicken that insulation: it heats up. With thicker insulation, the earth, like the house, will stay warmer. Anything against that?
Finally, think about cars/SUVs/fires/etc. When you see all that smog coming out of the ends of cars driving endlessly down the highways, where does it go? Into the atmosphere, of course. This thick smog thickens the insulation, heating the earth up.
Believe me now ?
[Issue 6 - Iraq]
This one is also very easy for me to write about. What could be easier to write about than a war started for no reason by decieving the American people? Almost nothing. And John McCain wants to stay in Iraq for up to 100 years until we have "victory".....wait.....didn't bush already do "Mission Accomplished"!?!? That was how many years ago?!?
Iraq was, and is, a pointless war. we cant pull out, and it costs billions to stay. It is a lose-lose situation for the US, unfortunatelly. Blame bush .
One under-publicised fact is that the US is paying former insurgents to help keep the peace. However, the US is currently passing that responsibilty to the Iraqis, who are arresting them . Is this the doing of the surge? No. The surge may have helped some, but it was these payed security guards who made the major difference. Unfortunatelly, now with the Iraqis in control of this security force, it seems headed for more violence.
Thats all for now! I will continue tomorrow if i can, otherwise probably Sunday. Please respond if you want/feel the need too .
BTW, do i now win longest post? |
| Xuzz
| | | PiNerd
|  | | I was in the US a couple of weeks back and the profile of the elections surprised me. When we have elections for parliament in England I didn't seem to notice last time round . I saw Barrack Obama's acceptance speech though - wow. John McCain so obviously just picked that Alaskan woman just to steal the Clinton voters! |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | caimpaiegning (spelled wrong as usewall) always has lies from both parties and I feel that that issue whould be completelly ignored bye the mainstreem media, I can garrenty you obama has lied at least as-much or more.
global warming.
NO. Did you know back in the 70s they were worried about global cooling? did you know if you look back into the 1800s youl find that if you look at what low tech charts of climate change we had, it went up then too?
It is a large cicle this will clear out eventually.
oil drilling, this obviously should be allowed, its our land we should decide what happens to it not the freackin government, if we want to drill skinny little tunnles going deep into the ground I think we should be allowed, there is plenty of gas in alaska to keep u.s.a going for another 10 years easy! Sure we can invest in something during that time sure but for now use what all cars run on, and make the change slow!
VP pick.
Why shouldent he steal clintons voters? campainging peoples feelings will be hurt, and revenge will be made, its just life, so why make a big deal about someone making a very smart campieng choice! and bye the way she is more qualified to be presedent then barrack obama!
Obama has only been a senator, senetors only vote in senate thats basicly there only job,(theres a few others but mainly) and gess what? HE DIDENT VOTE ON 130 FREAKING VOTES!!! He voted" present" that sais alot about his great Values doesent it? And to quot mr. guliany "when your presedent being present is not enuf"
Sooo you feel we should have just let saddam hussane continue bobming and running planes into our biuldings?
Why should we pull out? We still have troops in germanny for goodness sake! How long has that war been over? If you are going to complain about a war complain about that! but wait that doesent count because there are no shots being fired that part of the world is at peace! no one is dying, well why noit stay till we achieve that in iraq?It is geting closer and closer every day, Why pull out and risk lives of amaricans?
And dont evan start with that crap obout weapons of master destruction! no they did not find warehouses of fully assembled bombs(iraq would be stupid to have them fully put together) but we did find exsplosive chemicals and such they were ferfectly capable of boiulding them.
And no you dont I can garrenty there are some longer ones on the medals bye country thread, back with the argument with cirinco. |
| Xuzz
| | | Pickle, about global warming:
Please answer the questions i put in there for you. Do they make sense?
Ads:
Just LOOK at http://factcheck.org . How many Obama untruths are there compaired to McCain? Much less. I just checked the Recent Postings section. Who won for the most lies? McCain, by a 9 to 3 margin
"We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit, "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews, and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.
The Annenberg Political Fact Check is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state, and federal levels.
The APPC accepts NO funding from business corporations, labor unions, political parties, lobbying organizations or individuals. It is funded primarily by the Annenberg Foundation."
That was the factcheck's mission. To REDUCE LIES in politics. And they end up with over 3 times as much on the McCain side. Why? Because he actually would win an election than save this country.
And you said that he told less lies ....I challenge you to find 10 places where Obama has outright lied to the american people. I don't think you can (but if you do i will be sure to find at least 3 times as many).
Oil Drilling:
OK, I get that you don't care about earth because Jesus will save you before it dies. I'm not Christian, but isn't there some thing in Christianity where you are supposed to protect the earth?
VP Pick:
Senators make laws. Senators know what is happening in the world. Senators know what the Bush administraton policies are. Palin doesn't. She is governer of a state with barely a Million people in it. Even Chicago ALONE has more than that, let alone any whole states!
Palin is hiding from the press -- McCain is SCARED that HIS pick for VP would ruin his campaign. She almost already did! The only time when she can speak to the press, they only let the press keep what the WANT to the press to have her saying.
"...despite the gaggle of requests and pressure from the media, Gov. Sarah Palin won’t submit to a formal interview anytime soon. She may take some questions from local news entities in Alaska, but until she’s ready — and until she’s comfortable — which might not be for a long while — the media will have to wait..."
Why isn't she ready? If she is supposedly ready to be Vice president, how come she can't even speak to the press. How is she supposed to reason with foreign diplomats when she can't even talk to the press in her own country without a big fear of messing things up? I would really like to hear an answer to that...
Iraq:
It isn't saddam hussain that was attacking us, it was Osama Bin Laden. And he is STILL attacking is while we are losing in Iraq. The war in Afganistan is going badly, nobody cares, but it is where the main threat to the American people is. C'mon -- even you can understand in your pickle shaped brain that we only invaded Iraq because Bush wanted to. there were no "weapons of mass destruction", all we ended up doing is fighting over nothing and wasting billions and billions of dollars on a pointless war. Think of if we hadn't invaded Iraq. our goverment wouldn't be so far in debt, we would have over 4000 americans still alive, COUNTLESS iraqi's still alive (but you don't care about them, you think its their fault they died because they are Muslims ), and the only reason we went there is because Bush wanted to finish up what his Daddy started. BTW, we had a SURPLUS when the republicans took ofice, and look where we are now in goverment debt.
Please answer my questions about Global Warming from my first post. Then answer the rest of my questions. Just answer them. Not that hard. Most are yes or no questions.
I hope that even the MOST stupid of 16yr olds can figure that out ... |
| Xuzz
| | | *be sure to find -> will be easy to find |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | mike flips
|  | | Pickle - i dont even need a long post to show how dumb you are.
Religion - If you accept the old testament then you will know for sure that Jesus couldnt have been the messiah. He didnt meet any of the requirements in terms of who he was. The messiah is supposed to be human for example. Not a god like you stated.
Heres just a few things that were supposed to happen that never did:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
B. Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6).
C. Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. As it says: "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore." (Isaiah 2:4)
D. Spread universal knowledge of the God of Israel, which will unite humanity as one. As it says: "God will be King over all the world -- on that day, God will be One and His Name will be One" (Zechariah 14:9).
Jesus didn't do any of that. Therefore he can't be the messiah. Plain and simple. Thats why people are still waiting. Theres much more but no point in getting into it.
Global Warming - Pickle is like a little kid sitting on a highway. People yell at him to move or he will get hit by a car. And pickle stamps his feet and says "theres no such things as cars"
Well guess what pickle, you're gonna be flattened. Sure you can deny reality and make claims about the 70s (oh they must have had super technology back then), but in the end you will just be seen as an idiot.
I bet pickle thinks that 9/11 is fake as well? You sound like one of those people.
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| Mr.pickle.
| | | Also
Xuzz from what I can tell Fact check is made bye liberals(As is most mainstreem media)
and anyway presedents cannot be expected to know everything, sometimes they make mistakes it there talking, I would say it is rare for either party to intintionally tell a flat out lie, tho it does happen, it cant really be held agianst them its called politics.
A side note here about the issue of abortion.
There is a true story about a mother who found out(at 6 months) that her child would be paralised for life, enless the doctor did an imidiet surgery on him from the womb, the doctor took imidiety action and commenced withthe surgery when he started working a tiny hand reached out and grabbed his finger! now tell me unborn babies cant feel pain and are not really humans yet!
And anyway this babie was not born intil 10 months, it was late! that means it was problnder developed! there are es being born at only 6 months!(dont deny It I have a cousin who was) think how much faster they would have to develope to survive outside the womb!
Not to mention a baby has a heartbeat and brain waves at right around 6-8 weeks of existing! Killing unborn babys is murder theres no way around it. |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | I said in the 70s that they were worried about global cooling and I can prove that they were worried about if you want.
i BELIVE i HAVE just confermed that global warming is a huge cicle and not really worth worring about.
Mike you are confusing the 1st coming with the 2nd coming of christ. He WAS human tho he was fully human and fully God at the same time(once again humans cnt comprehend this yet) He will do thos other things when he returns again. |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | btw mike, show me a chart of how much the average temperature has gone up and I will say your right but since you cant do that theres no sence evan argueing with me.
And if you do find me one it will be highly magnified making that 1.8th degree look huge, when it fact it is literally almost nothing. |
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