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Up to:  Biker's CafeThis should be a good place for all purpose talks, better than interleaving our discussions with "Time Trial Champions" comments.
Mr.pickle. | Settling an argument...Alright here is a conversation between me and Xuzz through PM's. edited to make it easyer to read(there was a bit in there about getting my hotsinc to work..)
Mrpickle: "Xuzz, I am somewhat smoothing out the climb, in my opinion, it makes tha level hardER but in a different way....
Anyway, whats your email, and I can send it to you.
I can let you change the BACKGROUND TEXTURE and such, but other than that....you can't toutch a thing,or I will not hesitate to have a tantrum "
Sent to Xuzz, Friday, 14:29
Xuzz:
" Check out what I did to it .
 http://xuzz.net/climb.swf"
Friday, 20:42
Pickle:"no xuzz.....You may not use that one...."
Pickle:"I sent you an email with the smoothed out level on there,as well as explaining all the changes"
Xuzz:"Yes, and I liked it. It is in there now as you sent it but with the bombs at the end as finish flags. No level should be that mean ."
Today, 20:45
Pickle:"What? You changed it? I will need to see.
It is common curtesy,that the maker of the level gets the final say in what happens to his level, I will not hesitate to raise a giant argument involving the whole of BOD. And Vega would be on my side about the maker having the final say, and he counts for 2 in an argument,lol...I have seen him argue these things before...
There are plenty of levels with hard endings, that one is a ton easyer than CMR, and cmr is one of the best levels ever made.
Show me the level Xuzz..."
Sent to Xuzz, Today, 21:13
Xuzz:
"I only just selected the mines, and converted to finish flags. Thats it."
Today, 21:15
____________________________________________
From there we got on chat, heres the end of our conversation there...
Mr.Pickle."I don't care what you think, change it back "
Xuzz: "pickle, nobody is going to support you in putting an annoying level in the Hof "
Mr.pickle. "Its my level, and they will support that I get the final say. "
Mr.pickle. "Laser liked the previous one for HOF, he is one of the people who likes a challenge... "
Xuzz "challenge != aggrivation "
Xuzz "really "
Mr.pickle. "No xuzz... "
Xuzz "( != means is not the same as ) "
Mr.pickle. "Change it back "
Xuzz "g2g bye"
Xuzz "talk later "
Xuzz "once the pack is in with it my way  "
Mr.pickle. "It will be changed back Xuzz... "
Mr.pickle. "I will make a post now if you make me Xuzz.. "
Mr.pickle." Alright posting now..."
Thatbrings us up to now, I will be uploading my level to krises site or something in a minet, so you all can see the difference, if youv played my level before, he basicly removed the 2 mines on either side of the finish flag. He replaced them with more finish flags.
This is a little thing that he has canged,I will admit, but it is part of my design,and I am frankly going to fight with all that is in me,that it is changed back before the levels are put into HOF. |
Spence
| 10 | |  | | 6 | |
|  |  | How old are you again? It really doesn't matter. It's what everyone else wants. |
| shaunnortho
|  | | This is for the next level pack? |
| Xuzz
|  | | Yep. |
| mike flips
|  | | How about this for settling the argument. I played the level. It is well over a minute long. I set a new start point right near the ending. Then i played the ending over and over many times to see how it would be like. With the mines there, I died almost all the time trying to play it very fast. If I slowed it down a bit, I still died more than half the time.
With the mine changed to the finish flag, a fast ending was able to be completed consistently.
a) most people find dying at the end of a long level frustrating and annoying
b) the ending will be very hard for newer players and the prime complaint of new players, especially on iPhones is the difficulty of the game - therefore Sz would welcome more beatable levels
c) I don't like it
Given all of the above, I dont see much point in arguing. Xuzz and I spent a lot of time fixing up every single level in the pack and testing them so that they will be as fun and user friendly as possible. A mine at the end of the longest level in the pack is neither of the two and I really would like them to be finish flags.
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| Xuzz
| | | I love how pickle edited his spelling in this post...shows he can, but doesn't .
One example: "chang eit back" is a direct quote from chat, but magically fixed here... |
| PMD
 | | 5 | | | 6 | |
|  | | Kristopher
|  | | Note to new players: you can have your say in the new levelpack too; I'm sure the people making the levelpack will listen to feedback. |
| Ibanez
|  | | I think if the level pack committee is too big then the levels creativity will get watered down as you can't please everyone. Either all nominated levels go up for a vote and the top 10 go in as is - as we've done in the past. Or, as in this case, we trust a small group, or even individual, to create the next pack and enjoy the result. Sz should and will always have the final say - and I for one have always loved SZs levels.
I'm having fun trying out the Winter pack - let's get it live before Spring... |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | PMD, cmr,is one of the most famous levels in egsistance BECUASE IT IS HARD! MAKES IT A CHALLENGE! I call that fun.
Kris, I did complain about what he did,and he said it was done anyway,now it will soon be published and to late to change back.. |
| Ibanez
| | | Mr P. You are not going to be able to force a level into the HoF. You're coming across very heavy handed and inflexible, if this level was put to a vote it would likely be rejected now for that very reason, whether it's a good level or not.
If the makers entrusted with this particular pack want to change it and you don't want them to, and there's no compromise, then withdraw it. Maybe the next pack will be based on a player vote (like NextGen I think it was) and you can put it up for re-election then. |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | Ibanez, this level has ALREADY been accepted by many, the way it WAS, I already sacrificed alot by smoothing out, losing the ending makes the level to easy, theres no challenge any more....
In past packs it has always been common curtesy that the maker of the level gets the final say. I have put many long hours into making this level, and as far as I am concerned by smoothing it, it is already not as good as it was...taking the ending would completly ruin the level.
This is my level...I put alot of work into it,and likely won't ever aim for getting another level into HOF becuase its so hard, I have had this level tested bye a total of 5 players, all of them say its good. I have re-realesed this level 4 times, each time improving, to see all those hours of work go to watse becuase mike and Xuzz don't like my ending doesent sound fair to me at all.
Ibanez, most packs have been voted in, notice there was no argument about the levels pinerd made, why? Becuase they were that impressive, and they were all made by him. This is a different case, I made this level, the maker gets the final say. This has always been the custom,and to change it when my level is being published doesent sound fair. yes life is not fair,however it has always been my practise to be as fair as possible,just the same. |
| Ibanez
| | | I personally don't mind a really difficult level per pack, it's the challenge like you say. And I wouldn't want to change my level either just because of an other persons differing opinion, so in many ways I agree with you.
However how do you move forward from the stalemate? I would suggest both versions go to Sz and he decides. |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | Its not even a big change, just change the flags on either side of the middle finish flag,into mines. makes you go between them.
@Xuzz, I could even shoot for a comprimise, just make the ending a little harder than that! The way it is,all you have to do is bounce off the wall...even the ending you suggested in your PM to me(the one where you said"Look what I did to it ")haveing him go under a mine or something! The way it is,its just to easy. |
| mike flips
| | | You are talking about the ending like it was a challenge. But i found it was a lot to do with luck and not skill. I am fine with a hard ending that can eventually be mastered, but an ending that can not be mastered and is based on luck is not a challenge at all - it is an annoyance. |
| Mr.pickle.
| | | Mike, I could get that ending every time no problem...I could probably do it with my eyes closed... |
| bones
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it lost HoF appeal because of long load time but if you simplfy the bottom junk i did it loads in like 3 seconds.