Time Trial Champions
See also: 5 Years On Bike! Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5

		Andrew A	26590 pts (Leader)
		Kamirashi	25299 pts (1291 pts behind Andrew A)
		BikerBrian	24862 pts (437 pts behind Kamirashi)
#4		PMD	22996 pts (1866 pts behind BikerBrian)
#5		Laser	22982 pts (14 pts behind PMD)
#6		mike flips	22746.5 pts (235.5 pts behind Laser)
#7		Tyler	21431 pts (1315.5 pts behind mike flips)
#8		casey	20377 pts (1054 pts behind Tyler)
#9		Shane	20232 pts (145 pts behind casey)
#10		Kristopher	20227.126 pts (4.874 pts behind Shane)

Sz		Scoring: - 121 pts for the best time in a level - at least 1 point for completing a level Read more:  Scoring method changed  "Time Trial Champions" Changes
Vega		yah i guess you're right. they were probably all as good as the players of today. and to have any of them come back, and try to challenge the new players would be boring. i don't know what i was thinking.
BikerBrian		I find the debate over past vs. current players to be interesting. IMO, there are several factors involved in acquiring a high rank: 1) time/trials spent on a given level 2) skill 3) vision to create a new route 4) confidence in yourself that you can beat the current gold. Having someone push you to keep improving your time (Vega on Malysz) is important to getting a run that will stand the test of time. It was mentioned that no one gets to the Top 10 for Standard levels without being good. Here is an interesting statistic - Tyler and I are the only 2 players in the Top 10 in Standard that started playing after 2006. Here are the Top 10 with the month and year they first came on the scene. 1. MF 9/05 2. Vega 9/05 3. Shane 3/06 4. Laser 10/06 5. Brian 1/08 6. Kris 6/05 7. PMD 7/05 8. Cirenco 7/06 9. Tyler 11/08 10. Oliver 9/04 I find it more impressive for a new player to make it into the Top 10 than for an older player to still be there. My reasoning is that prior to 2006, there were only 6 levelpacks (76 levels) to focus on. Newer players now have 220 levels to play, which dilutes the number of tries they will have on a given level.
Laser		I'm sort of in between. On the one hand, your example of Tyler may actually work against proving that the current generation is any better. The reason why he is able to reach the #4 rank in TTC even though he's only been around for two years, is because 1) he's played more levels, and 2)he is ranked first or second in the last three packs, i.e. the ones that were played the least. Also, someone who comes later on is just going to copy the top runs from the older levels and replicate those times even if you spent the hours developing that route. However, the actual quality of those gold runs are probably much better than those of the less played Standard levels in 2004/2005. Like I said in my previous post, this game has evolved over time through the invention and casual use of new tricks. The Underground trick was considered mind-blowing back in 2004, but if you're not able to think that abstractly or have the skills to pull that off nowadays, you're guaranteed to rank in the 40s or 50s max on any level. Newer players are able to rank as high or higher than the old greats on Standard because we're better at looking at levels and knowing what makes a fast time. You brought up Malysz, but how about a level like Double Sprint in which none of the top times (besides Vega's) are before December 2006. I personally knocked 2-3 seconds off the previous best time on Pipe Universe, and that was in 2008. The one major advantage that the newer generations have, though, is H2H. There are too many levels that I didn't think I had a chance at until I saw how close I was/how much I caught by. It gave me hints about where I should improve, and sometimes motivated me to play the extra 500 times needed to medal. Also of interest to me, we should find a way to categorize everyone based on their "generations." I know I, for example, showed up at the same time (more or less) as Casey and Bones. You guys would be from the previous generation, and Mike was somewhere in between.
Laser		@Brian: The reason why they aren't any new players in the Standard top 10 is quite simply because there aren't any new hardcore players. Once you get good, you realize that those levels aren't that much more difficult to get decent times on than the others, but no one has really spent enough time to do that besides for you and Tyler.
BikerBrian		It also depends where you put your focus. Some players enjoy getting golds, some focus only on certain levelpacks, and some try to improve all levels. My focus has typically been to focus on the level or pack that is my worst and improve it as opposed to spending lots of time on a specific level. I think this has been PMD's focus as well. My strategy has netted me fewer golds than   Tyler but my overall profile   BikerBrian is more in line with my goals. For example, I have 87 points on my worst level and all but one levelpack are in the top 5, with cups in 8 packs. Tyler has 9 more golds than me, but has 30 levels with less than 87 pts and has 5 packs in the Top 5. Tyler's approach has allowed him to gain 7300 days in Golden Club and climb to #15, while I only have 3700 days and am ranked #19. Nothing wrong with either approach, it's just what each player considers important. Great point Laser: "someone who comes later on is just going to copy the top runs from the older levels and replicate those times even if you spent the hours developing that route."
Vega		"I find it more impressive for a new player to make it into the Top 10 than for an older player to still be there. My reasoning is that prior to 2006, there were only 6 levelpacks (76 levels) to focus on. Newer players now have 220 levels to play, which dilutes the number of tries they will have on a given level." you trying to say that you are more impressed with yourself than with me? j/k. actually, using this logic, i would be the least impressive player ever, since i have only submitted for 4 levelpacks altogether.
Kenn		Sorry but its necessary for me to point out that I am a mysterious 4th type of player that just screws around with the physics engine. Its very atypical of my routes to be a carbon copy, I only take golds when I see either little changes, ie. RGB and freestyle (watch H2Hs closely and you'll see them), or absolutely game-breaking changes, ie. Lasertag and new today Fear of the dark. After reviewing all of my golds (or once golds, ie. Inspired, or Glasses of Water) against the highest Open game, none of them are truly carbon copies route wise, and all have, at the very least, one change that I in some cases am the only one to use, but in most was simply the first to use a particular 'trick'.
Laser		@Vega: Yes. @Brian: My strategy used to be more like yours, focusing on getting to the top 50, then 25, then 10, then top 5 of each pack. However, along the way, I got to a certain point when golds just became much easier to attain and it changed the game completely. Especially when I got to the top 5 in TTC, I realized that there's nowhere else to go (with Mike at an unattainable 1000 points ahead of me), and I just focused on certain levels or packs. If you remember, I specifically went for old Cirenco, Tabs, or Kris golds that I knew nobody cared about anymore, and I'm still holding on to some of those. Others, like CMR or Sinus Revisited (until not too long ago), I knew nobody wanted at all. That was really my trick for getting into 3rd in Golden Club. When I had a further realization that I'd never reach Mike or Vega, I opened all of my levels, and I still have most of them. As far as Tyler's "strategy," 9 of his 17 golds are from Spring Revival, and 3 are from Winter Pack. In contrast, I used to have at least one or two golds in every pack. Vega got up there by taking over older packs, and scaring off the competition. Mike still keeps all of his times closed. Others claim levels for themselves and work on them till they seem unattainable to others (Kenn recently, Lee, PMD, Kris). Whatever works.
BikerBrian		Laser, you crack me up agreeing with Vega's suggestion that he is the least impressive player ever... My golds are spread out over 5 packs [ORR (2), Summer (2), Next Gen (1), Supernatural (1), Spring Revival (2)]. I have medals in all but 2 packs. As for levelpack cups, MF holds the top spot in 10 of the 15 packs. Kris has Old School, Vega has Next Gen, Brian has Supernatural, and Tyler has Bikeforce and Spring Revival. I only have 50 points to go to take over 1st place in TTC. Of course, all MF would have to do is complete another level in Spring Revival to take it back. Who knows, maybe someday after I get a little experience under my belt, I'll switch strategies and go for golds. P.s. I'm loving the discussion that has erupted over the past couple of days. Special thanks to Kris for posting something with which Vega didn't agree.
Vega		yep. that's laser for ya. and actually brian, it was me who started it, and kris disagreed, and then i disagreed with kris's disagreement.... ya know... you guys are all really great.

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