Up to:  Biker's CafeThis should be a good place for all purpose talks, better than interleaving our discussions with "Time Trial Champions" comments.
BikerBrian | PoliticsWow! I stirred up a hornets nest by bringing up politics. Sorry guys, you can blame me. 
Let me start by saying that I am in complete agreement with Vega's last post in the GC thread (this discussion has now been moved to its own thread).
As Kris said, we each have our own personal beliefs about political (and religious) issues, so there is no sense trying to persuade each other.
However, I do need to add my 2 cents to Xuzz's comments. Regarding taxes: Even under the current "Bush system", people who earn more still pay WAY more than anyone else (actual and percentage). The top 5% earn 31.99% of all wages, but pay 53.25% of all income taxes. The top 50% pay 96.03% of all income taxes. The bottom 50% are paying a tiny bit of the taxes (3.97%), so you can't give them much of a tax cut by definition. Yet these are the people that Democrats claim to want to give tax cuts. Remember this the next time you hear the "tax cuts for the rich" business. Understand that the so-called rich are about the only ones paying taxes anymore.
The tax cuts have been unfairly labeled by the media to imply that they only help the rich, but that's crap. The "rich" are just being allowed to keep more of their own money. As Vega so eloquently put it, the better off they (and their companies) are, the better off everyone else will be. It is a terrible idea to punish success. If taxes are raised on businesses and employers, they will simply pass this burden on to customers and employees.
As for this election, we will have to agree to disagree if you (Xuzz) think Obama (who has the most liberal record in the U.S. Senate -  http://nj.nationaljou rnal.com/voteratings/) is better suited to run our country and unite it than McCain (who has a proven track record of working together with members from both parties).
Either way, our votes in CA and TN won't matter anyway. Obama will get California's electoral votes and McCain will get Tennessee's. There will be very little campaign money spent in either state. |
| Vega |  |  | A good suggestion:
Please just post a link rather than clogging this forum with something that can already be viewed from another web page. I will click the link and read accordingly.
Brian: great comments.
Xuzz: that's very boring.
thx  |
| | Cody |  | | Pickle: The leviathon is more of a sea dragon, what you're looking for is the behemoth, a meld between man and beast made by the devil. I love debates too, just not typing them. If anyone wants a good debate, come to my house. |
| | Mr.pickle. |  | | | Gus |  | | Vega: I hope I understood your question correctly, and am not going to entirely miss the point. "Do you want to...and what is your motivation?"
It would be wonderful to think that my life was more than a random blip on a curve of probanility, that it had some significance, and was part of something. I wouldn't like the feeling that this made at least some part of my existance pre-ordained, but the fact that it would then be important far outweighs this. The difficulty is, an unsubstantiated belief goes against everything I stand for. I believe very strongly that we should trust observational evidence, and weigh things up for oursleves. I have done this, and have come to a completely different conclusion to you. I can see how this could arise. As I said ealier, in an infinite universe anything that can happen, will happen. Whatever evolves on whatever planet in whatever galaxy will inevitably (once it has reached a certain level of intelligence) ask itself why? Why do I exist? But the simple fact is (to my mind) that it would be far more improbable if there was nothing out there. My motivation for believing would not be anything so pathetic as wanting to go to Heaven when I die, but because I would want a deeper meaning. I am all about knowledge and information, and it is this that keeps me from believing. I know this is paradoxical, bordering on illogical, but it's the best way I can describe it. I want a purpose: my motivation would be information. I hope I didn't misenterpret your point, and I hope my answer was of some interest to you. |
| | Vega | | | Gus,
You are a very intelligent dude. Your answer is rich with depth. In fact, it’s probably too intelligent for your own good. It's hard for me to think you are dumb for believing what you wrote here because I really feel like you have thought it through and that you are sticking to your guns. Even in the highest degree of variation in philosophy (and I definitely believe this topic qualifies), I totally respect your care of thought here.
Might I present some insight to your answer?
I believe you have left out a key element to life that cannot be explained through logic, through numbers, through human brainpower. Something bigger than us. Something more important than what God has allowed our physical senses to fully process. He disallowed us the ability not to tease us, but because it was absolutely vital to keeping people a creation that can have free will and not be robotic. It separates us from other animals.
*The Human Spirit*
Sounds super corny, I'll admit. But this is not fully explainable by us or even to us. We can try to understand, but somehow, there is an unknown element within us that allows us to experience feelings even without knowing how. Everyone knows that there is the potential for human spirit to be aroused in ways that are so uplifting, so encouraging, that it brings with it incredibly strong emotion. It makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up a bit. It gives you goose bumps. It makes you laugh, or cry.
Everyone has faith in something. It doesn't have to be religious based faith. You don't have to do much soul searching to admit that there are things that have taken place in your life and in other's that you know that are extra-ordinary; unexplainable. We experience these emotions because God wanted us to. He also gave us the choice to have faith, based on our attitude and humility toward his creations and toward your life in and of itself. Life is amazing here on earth, and I know with every fiber of my being that it is not an accident of random probability. I would be far more amazed by that than by the truth that God designed life. But life after earth is eternal. I believe there is a heaven and a hell. I believe that those who choose to have faith in God will be blessed to inherit his kingdom. Those who choose to rely solely on their limited human abilities to determine that they understand and comprehend this world enough to conclude that this was all created as a mere curve of probability and deny God's hand in creation will not inherit his kingdom. This, my friend, is the most important function of our free will that I know of.
We all know that the things of this world confound even the wise. Why then are so many people so quick to dismiss the possibility that God is powerful enough to create if it is already before our very eyes.
I believe every knee will bow… either first here on earth, or first before God. I choose to bow first here on earth, and then again before God.
Thanks for your answer Gus 
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| | mike flips |  | | So basically Vega, you are saying that it comes down to the following:
view.php?l=1764
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| | mike flips | | | | Mr.pickle. | | | "Rols Eyes at mikes comment" |
| | Laser |  | | Captain Cucumber? Wow, Pickle, I wish I had friends in the military! |
| | Laser | | | Oh, wait- I didn't notice the "Ahoy, there!"
Still, I don't have any seaworthy friends either. |
| | Xuzz |  | | | Mr.pickle. | | | This is the day...were gonna find out in a few short hours.. |
| | Xuzz | | | | BikerBrian | | | Now the world will be as one, we will all get tax cuts, and everyone will have health care. I'll give you your day Xuzz, but you didn't need to create a new profile.
 Obama |
| | Mr.pickle. | | | | mike flips | | | Pickle cant even spell his own country's name right 
Whats the matter pickle, we told you this was going to happen. All you had to do was listen. Every country is happy now. |
| | BikerBrian | | | Mike, I think Pickle was inferring that Obama's policies and beliefs will move the U.S. towards communism. Obama believes we should take from those who have more and give to those who don't. Come to think of it, I think we should implement these policies in the BoD world. Mike, even though you may have more skill and dedication to this game, it is simply not fair that poor Jarek only has 1 pt. It is pitiful that he doesn't even have enough levels completed to have a histogram! He hasn't earned a better spot and some would argue that he doesn't deserve it, but let's be patriotic here.
It is also not fair that you have way more medals than anyone else. Plus, with every gold, you get an extra 5 pts. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Come on Mike, let's spread the wealth!
After the Dems get over their elation of winning the election, I predict an overwhelming sense of depression will set in, since they will no longer be able to blame everything that happens on the "Bush Administration".
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| | Vega | | | | Vega | | | *good thing... |
| | Vega | | | btw... the dudes in the video are very "Pro Obama". But be ye not confused. I'm not Pro Obama. I simply digest things a bit differently (as we all know ). I just think it's quite interesting that Obama has suddenly changed his tune. He didn't talk like that at all in the campaign. Gee, I wonder why.... oh wait... I know. It's because he wanted to paint a rosey picture of what it would be like if he was elected. Now the truth will play out. Nicely played Barack. |
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